More Time, Higher Productivity

Matthew: Sure. So about 10 years ago, I ended up starting a national restaurant chain, which then became national restaurant, we scaled it to 14 locations in five years. And four years. After that I was never a restaurant guy. It’s just because I knew one of the other founders, it was a really senior restaurant guy, and he kind of helped me get into entrepreneurship. After that, I said, I want to go back into technology, which was my background. And so I did a bit of a startup, you know, I tried a couple startups in the Bay Area. And you know, that just wasn’t for me. And so I decided to buy an E commerce business, specifically an E commerce portfolio. And it was what three businesses three sites at the time now for. So for that we started with a fully domestic domestic workforce. So I have people here. And otherwise, I just started going overseas, right? I said, you know, there has to be a better way I keep on hearing about virtual assistants, I keep on everyone was telling me about it in my networking groups. And so what I realized is that there’s this whole workforce out there. And I started with low level workers. And eventually, you know, where they could just take, take stuff off your plate, right? They’re great, you know, and they just live overseas. And so that’s where I started my journey.

Ivan: Very cool. Very cool. So that’s really interesting, you know, how you started your journey. And I always ask about the story, because I think every entrepreneur has their own individual story. And I think that’s important. What’s so fascinating is where you got started, why you got started? And what was the driving factor? So you mentioned in your bio, that, you know, you founder of, you know, extend your team of virtual system company. So, is that how extend your team kind of came about is an extension of like the E commerce and then realizing, you know what, in reality, I’m grinding 1214 hours a day, and a lot of entrepreneurs don’t understand that earlier on. That’s exactly what you’re going to be doing before you strike gold. If you ever do that, how extend your team came about.

Matthew: It was actually born out of a very short stint I did at a large executive admin outsourcing business at the time I came in. This was when I tried to do Silicon Valley for a second at the time, I came in as interim CFO to help turn around the business. And unfortunately, for a lot of reasons, it just wasn’t possible. But I loved the idea. Fast forward, I bought my business. And it’s so funny because you forget a lot of the lessons that you know, I know, you know, I know that operations does not create value, and that’s the biggest mistake I made in my ecommerce business, is thinking my operational expert RTS is just gonna create all this magical value. So I always love the outsource EA idea. And what happened was I like you said in the intro I was getting crushed. I mean, for you. I mean, this is my three and a half years, I was just working 14 hours a day. And it really, you know, it sounds kind of cliche was affecting a marriage, but it really was I mean, it was really causing tension between my wife and I, and we were going to China. And so she said it was just a vacation with her family. And she said, I really would like you not to work on this vacation. It’d be great. So you know, that’s not a request.

Ivan: No, that’s I’m married. I know, that ain’t happening.

Matthew: So if my suffering wife, but yeah, she says hi. Sue said, Why don’t you hire some? I had a few people in the Philippines. They were low level, virtual assistants, right to my customer service and a couple of other things. Why don’t you hire someone who’s running? You know, the businesses was doing, you know, 4000 orders a month. And so I was sitting here like, Okay, I don’t know, is it possible? I asked a couple people who, who are very familiar with hiring in the Philippines, they’ve never done it. So I said, let me say, I was very motivated, and hard to want to end it. She changed my life. And then so what happened was, you know, this is really a lesson and you know, everyone likes to talk about the good parts of entrepreneurship. No one ever wants to talk about the bad parts. Oh, shed. So things are going well, right. Yeah. I mean, like, you know, Angelica is crushing it. I mean, really just, it just blew me away. Right? Got me out of the business. I’m like, alright, what am I doing? You know, I could do something else. I’ll buy another business, then COVID happens. Right? So E commerce during COVID is absolutely incredible. Right? It’s exploded, right. Sounds great, right? Except if you’re in the wedding business. So my largest business of the four businesses is in weddings. And so you can imagine what happened. I mean, it just was like a freight train came hit it. No one wants to talk about like, Oh, my God, I was riding high. And what happens when the freight train hits?

Ivan: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, you know, you were as you were talking about e commerce, I wanted to add one note, so I’m hearing some people bitch about the growth of Amazon during COVID. And honestly, when you think about is the accessibility and the convenience, getting your hands on consumer goods, that’s why they’re growing because during COVID, you’re sitting on the couch, you know, you don’t have much of an option, you can’t go outside. So people are more limited in other areas in the country. I mean, I’m in the Midwest, but you know, I’ve heard East Coast and West Coast just being crazy about the limitations. Right. And, and, and the the limitations around that. But that’s why they’ve grown so when you said weddings, like nobody’s you know, people trying to get married, but they can’t buy shit for a wedding. Or people show up to the wedding, let alone?

Matthew: Yeah, I mean, you know, for for a lot of countries, they were bands, right. So I guess Yeah, you know, so it didn’t go to you know, it doesn’t go to zero. But you know, it was reduced by a large amount, right? Because while you can have weddings, and so I said, so I said, Okay, that’s great. I stabilized the business. That was not a fun four weeks while I figured that out. Right, just decisively just reorganizing everything. And I said, Okay, to junk out. You know, a lot of people were shocked at the success I had with you. And running my business. Yeah. And I said, why don’t we start a virtual assistant agency, it just get people like you. That’s it. Yeah. And so, you know, my first client was someone in one of my networking groups, I found him an amazing bookkeeper. I found it’s grown to will be at 50 people. And it’s since I started in May. Yeah. Well, a really interesting thing, I solved my own problem and just do it for others.

Ivan: Well, that’s actually the topic I wanted to chat with you about is how you launched the business in a pandemic, to start things off and grew it to 50 people. So we know that you don’t want growth happens from discomfort and I think COVID created a lot of discomfort for a lot of entrepreneurs. A lot of small businesses closed their doors, but I think it’s in part because they failed to innovate and just get creative. You know, I mean, not entirely, but that was a part of that problem. Let’s talk about like, how did you COVID heads, you’re like, you know, everybody’s like, you know, running for the hills, so to speak. You’re like, No, I’m starting a business. Let’s talk about that.

Matthew: Yeah, I mean, nothing like necessity, right? You know, look, my ecommerce portfolio like, thankfully, you know, you learn a lot about diversification you stuff I guess, because, you know, one part got smacked the other parts doing very well. But I it’s still freed me up and it wasn’t enough to keep me interested in that’s when I’m just doing so I went What made me started is I just saw the need, I saw what how it mattered to me. And I said, Well, why can’t I meet other people? I know the problem with virtual assistants, that people go hot, hire very low level people get frustrated, why doesn’t work and fire them very quickly, or, you know, they keep them on. And it just sucks up the time because you’re sitting there dealing with very low level people. And it’s like, asking someone straight out of you know, with no experience out of college to go help run a large business, it just doesn’t work. Right. So you know, certain things you do to experience like, you need a number two, who has been around the block a little bit. And I just saw the need. And I talked to people I knew, they validated the idea. And they gave me a shot.

Ivan: Yeah. So was it extend your team that was born during COVID?

Matthew: Yes, yeah, I did not have this business. So I at first, it was just under my existing umbrella, like my existing LLC. And then within two months, I started a new LLC specifically for this. Once I saw, I hit a certain level, and I was like, Okay, this is real.

Ivan: Yeah. Wow. Well, you know, I’m a huge fan of that, that you said that you started a business in the midst of one stimulus, while stimulus doesn’t hit until what middle of 2020? I think you’re on there. Yeah, you you start a business when COVID When a pandemic, what are the biggest problems worldwide and you start a business, but you know, one, I think that’s the true epitome of real entrepreneurs is that we’re so resilient, that we understand that when there’s discomfort is when we need to step up our game, because, you know, we’re, there’s a problem, there’s a need for a solution. So problem is COVID, you got to figure out how to create a solution to meet all this all this demand. So you’re starting this business. But one thing that you mentioned that I want to kind of shift towards this, you were working these 14 hour days, right? So you were like grinding and grinding, let’s face it, entrepreneurship is a fucking grind, you know, you’re like 60 7080 hour days, for probably the first few years. And that’s not even a guarantee that you will make it, it’s just a shot at actually getting a runway to where you make the most amount of mistakes. And then once you make those mistakes, hopefully you learn and don’t make those mistakes. Again, some people will just keep making the mistakes. And that’s why 99% of entrepreneurs fail, is because they don’t learn from those past mistakes. So how did you solve the problem of 14 hour days to three hour days? Within 45 days?

Matthew: I hired someone who was good. I’m not sure. What’s your say? You hire someone who is, you know, differently talented, but very talented and what they do. And, you know, she was Chief of Staff for 100 person company. Right now I just have a small six person business, right? The event The thing is, if when you go in and you play with salary disparity, right, so she makes a very good salary for her country right now, but her expenses in her country are also much lower. Right? There’s no such thing as a million dollar. I’m sure, right. But there’s not. It’s not a common thing. Like when you go to major cities like New York, right? So she makes an executive salary for the Philippines. 

Ivan: Sorry. 

Matthew: But the disparity in pay is significant enough that I’m earning dollars, and I’m paying $1 chip, and I’m paying in Filipino levels. You just are able to get better people, and they’re happy. So that’s all I did. I just got someone who is very good at what she does.

Ivan: You know, I want to speak to that. Because, you know, I’m an Eastern European, an immigrant, you know, I’ve seen both sides of the fence. But one thing that I think it’s important to mention here is that people in different countries, like I technically came from a third world country, former communist country, and some people are like, I can’t even fathom living there. You know, and I want to talk about that. But I think one thing you brought up is that, and it’s not just the Philippines, I feel like you know, across the pond, there’s sort of this mantra and resilience that is hard to find in people here. I mean, you can find them but it’s very, very difficult when you do, it can be very pricey, because I feel like a lot of talent, especially you know, me being in the marketing space is that it’s hard to find really good, dedicated, you know, talent, maybe even season depending depending on the kind of caliber of person you’re looking for. Like you said, you don’t want to hire someone out of college. I’ve done that. And I learned my lesson on that. But you keep moving. So when you hire someone in the Philippines is that it’s just a whole different mantra. You know, they’re willing to work hard. They have a work ethic, they understand, you know what it takes and they’re willing to show up consistently. And the cost factor is a lot more cost efficient to you because of the economics behind it. I think that’s what people don’t understand is because you’re absolutely right. And oh, in your bio was mentioning that there’s this huge misconception around virtual assistants, right? Because most people think I’m going to hire someone cheap, because I can increase my profit margin. Well, no, you still need to find someone who’s dependable, who’s knowledgeable, who’s going to be able to execute and show up. And like you said, you found someone who was chief of staff for 100 person company, now they’re coming in to manage a six person company. So it is possible. And what’s advantageous to you is the economical difference in cost of living, basically. And I think that’s what I mean, this is really key, because I know that especially with startups in the United States, there’s a lot of startups, even businesses that have been in business for five plus years, because let’s face it, the four or five year mark is hopefully when you make the most amount of mistakes, and then you you’ll hopefully push forward, you know, from them, but even those businesses that are five plus years in the business are always looking for cheap help. And that’s the misconception. Like, I’m just hiring someone in Philippines because they’re cheaper. No, I mean, it’s kinda like, you know, just because it’s cheap, doesn’t mean that it’s good. And that’s a traditional misconception. I think that if you pay for cheap labor, you’re gonna get higher results. And that’s not true.

Matthew: Right? You have any luck? It’s like anything else, you gotta pay for talent, right? When you’re going to people are proud I pay someone you know, $4 an hour in the Philippines. Okay, that’s fine. But guess what you’re getting, you’re getting someone who has very little experience is not dependable, and who leave you for 50 cents or leave you for a quarter. Right? what’s that worth to you? And so one of the things I think is it’s resonated for us is, we are absolutely at the top end of the market. Not even a question, right of people. I know they’re doing this, like, I don’t know, anyone who’s in the same market level we are. But results speak for themselves. People are happy, right? We’re not losing, we’re not losing clients for incompetence, right. Of course, you’re gonna have people who’s in each change. But you know, you’re not sitting here saying, Wow, you got me someone’s, you know, a terrible hire. I can’t believe that. It’s just not that’s not happening. Right. So, you know, there’s, of course, look, it’s the hiring, right? You don’t know until you know, but at the end of the day, when you get better people, you get better results. And I had my first client, he was in a similar situation as as me and where he was working all these hours. And when his first person came on his hours, he was like, he told me he’s like, I feel guilty. I don’t know what to do. Like, like, I just feel guilty. I don’t have all this work to do.

Ivan: So I mean, 

Matthew: it matters, right, like talent matters.

Ivan: Absolutely. I agree. 100% incompetence. I mean, you know, whether you’re paying more or less, I mean, you’re still looking for competence, right? And talent. And I think that’s a really key factor. You know, I want to shift the Convo to since we’re talking about entrepreneurship and building your business, sir, to talk about, you know, what you need to focus on as an entrepreneur. Because I think the IG entrepreneurs that are at large right now with the fake Lambos, and the bullshit that they post, you know, is like, just totally, totally saturating the entrepreneurial space. And I went through a phase where it used to drive me batshit crazy, because it’s just diluting the potential of, you know, capable people like you and I who are trying to create an impact in the marketplace. So let’s talk about new entrepreneurs. 2021, you got a phenomenal idea, starting a business. Are you looking to grow? What do you need to focus on?

Matthew: Yeah, just as a side note, I’m a drop shipper. That’s my ecommerce business. So you want to talk about scammers about teaching, you know, on YouTube, if you they’re teaching you how to do something, that’s their business, not actually doing it. You know, but what do you focus on? Honestly, focus on one thing, growth, just just get sales or whatever the equivalent is under your belt, and just keep on doing that. The thing that trips most people up, in my opinion, is, it’s what tripped me up, even though I knew better, right, because it wasn’t my first rodeo is I think that having the best operations to the nth degree is is what’s important and going to make my business successful. You have to have a certain level of course, Catholic competence, right? I mean, it’s not not see it, but at a certain point, that’s not what’s important. It hinders you focusing on having you know, for me having these kinds of conversations, yeah, I’m doing sales. You know, I my case, I post a lot on LinkedIn, doing those type of things that grows my business, hiring out the operations. To competent people, that’s way better than me doing my value. Otherwise, you’re valuing your time very, very low. So you’re telling me you’re valuing your time at like 16 bucks an hour, okay? That’s what you’re valued. Hey, you know, but people don’t realize that I, you know, I never really thought of it like that. But, you know, you just have to be ruthless with your time, outsource anything that is just say you value your time at 100 an hour, 50 an hour doesn’t make a difference. If you can outsource it, you should, if it’s less than that. And I think that’s the most important thing, focus on growth, especially if you’re new focus on validation. Talk to everyone, you know, don’t be like, everyone’s like, people are like, Oh, you they’re gonna steal my idea. No, really. They’re not. People don’t want it. People say they maybe they say they’re going to, but no one’s gonna execute it like you. Believe me. People don’t have the time. Right? No. So I tell my wife, John’s my drives my wife nuts, I talk to everyone, I tell them everything. I’m open. I don’t care. And you know, she she sits there like, Yeah, but now people know, the secret sauce. I’m like, I don’t care. Because they can’t execute it. It doesn’t matter.

Ivan: Yeah.

Yeah. No, I think that’s you mentioned so many important things. And I want to do allude to that is, and the first thing is, is, you know, value your time, because you can’t get more of that, you know, because let’s face it, we all you know, are born and then we die. So some have more time, others have less, but what’s really key in entrepreneurship is just that value your time. The other thing is, is that you as an entrepreneur, have the biggest potential, because you’re multifaceted and you understand. Now, that’s where it’s important is, like you said is you know, outsource as much as you can, you know, to people that can handle operations or this not like, I’ve been really thinking about this myself being in the marketing spaces is that, you know, I’m a relationship builder. I’m a networker, I love meeting people I love, you know, identifying new opportunities, new collaborations, right? I need to outsource all this technology stuff that I do, you know, because if I do that, I’m freeing up my time to where I can focus on more. I think that’s the biggest mistake that a lot of entrepreneurs, especially new entrepreneurs make, that I can handle all this myself. In fact, I know a guy who is a designer that I’ve partnered up with for eight years, you know, he’s been working on himself, he wants to grow his business. But he says, I can’t find anybody reliable. And I’m like, I don’t think you understand the fact that you will never find someone like you. If you do, then you’re replaced.

Matthew: Correct. You’re the boss for a reason, right? And they just you have to remember that you’re the boss for a reason. And, yes, they may not do it, as well as a lot of times they can do it better if you find the right person. But they’re not gonna do things, the perfect way that you do it to the nth degree. But that’s why you’re the boss, but you can’t grow unless you get most of the stuff off your table off your plate. It’s just not it’s not possible. So everyone has 24 hours. That’s it. No one has more than that. You can. But you can’t have more than that if you have a team.

Ivan: I agree. I agree. And actually, on that note, I want to segue to the next question I wanted to ask you is, you know, this is key, because, you know, I’ve been a part of a family business for a good part of 15 years. And maybe there’s the Eastern European mentality. But, you know, my father has been one of those people that’s like, he’s hired and fired and hired and fired and hired and fired. And for four years, I couldn’t understand why, like, why was the hiring and firing people, you know, like, in such a short time, and now I understood that it was that mentality that like, he’s looking for a person that’s just like him, that’s going to do it things his his way. And I literally spent probably two years you know, coaching him to understand that if you find someone that does things, like you’re better than you’re out of business, and ask him because that’s why that’s why you’re the boss. Because you have a mantra, you’ve got a process, but what you can find is people that do it just as good, or even coached them to do it good. But it’s gonna take some time. Right? And that leads me to the question that I wanted to ask you is finding quality people like how do you hire them? How do you identify what are your tips on? Like, identifying someone, like you said, hand off my operations to?

Matthew: First thing is when it comes to remote work, the number one thing people don’t do is actually write a job description. scope out the job. It sounds crazy. Yeah. You know, when we take on a client, you know, we do a bunch of things, like a professional profile, the person we have to do a video, we write a formal job description for approval, right? But the one thing that people need to do if they’re doing this, this themselves is write a job description. Otherwise, how do you know what you’re hiring for? Listen, I’ve found victim to it as well, but it’s that one thing makes difference, because then you know whether it’s unrealistic, right, which I’ve had clients, give me a laundry list, and I’m like, okay, that’s just, you’re looking for a pink unicorn with sparkly eyelashes like it’s not happening. But we can split up the job into two people and get the right people for both, right. So just write that job description, post it and hire to the job description. And but that job description should not be you, right? It’s not you, you’re the visionary. So that that’s my biggest tip. After that, it gets a lot easier than once you hire the person, you have to train, train them, use videos, right? There’s a product called Boom, LLM. It’s amazing. It’s free. When you first sign up for it, we use it for all our trainings, just record your screen with a click, and you just, you know, explain a task to through a video recording on your screen, are you talking or it’s CG or whatever, like a regular video, Joe build that library, you don’t have to do it once it takes, you know, a minute or two per video. And over time, you can basically outsource every task you get every task you want, fairly effectively. So right is this job description? develop training videos? 

Ivan: Yeah. 

Matthew: And both of those really don’t take time.

Ivan: Yeah, no, that’s, that’s a really good point. You know, and I want to go back to what you’re saying is that you’re a visionary. I think that’s what a lot of entrepreneurs don’t understand is because I think this sort of, you know, they dilute their own potential, they degrade themselves. And I think it’s kind of unintentional, you know, because I remember I’ve gone through a similar phrase phase to where, like, well, maybe I’m not capable, maybe maybe I shouldn’t go after this, like you kind of almost self doubt yourself. And so when you start to look for other resources, eventually is like, you still question that. But so I think it goes, comes down to like, understanding that you bring a wealth of knowledge to the marketplace, and you just need to be more confident, you know, in your pursuit of doing that, and then understand that nobody that you hire, right is going to replace you. I mean, they’re not going to do things as good as you what they’re, what they’re doing is they’re coming in to help you. So you can grow in scale. So you can focus on other things. Right?

Matthew: Exactly, exactly. I think you so very well said, you know, the way I like to think about it is as an entrepreneur, you’re an architect, your job is to architect a solution. Now, when you’re building a building, right? The architect is not laying brick, laying the foundation, doing the wiring, doing the plumbing, he’s architected, a solution that everyone else is working towards. It’s the same same type of thing, right? You haven’t vision, no matter what, you may not think of yourself as a visionary, but you are as an entrepreneur, because you’re bringing something to life, and then it’s your job to put the different pieces in place in order to make that solution successful. Right, your job is. I mean, I I’m a grinder, and it was just like, and I know this, you know, and I still did it. It’s just like, you know, I went to business school, I still no strategy, I still… we still advise people, I still did it because my tendency is a grinder, but your job isn’t a grind. You’re you’re…

Ivan: you’re man, you are preaching to the choir, so to speak. Because when you are saying that like grinder-grinder, like looking at my father, for example, is like and this is the mistake I don’t want to make, honestly is, is that he’ll work on weekends, you know, he’ll work long hours, he’ll burn out, he’ll be tired. And my mind be like, What the fuck are you doing? Like, it’s Saturday, you’ve been working three Saturdays in a row, like, like, stop. That’s what you burning out. You’re not getting enough sleep. You’re tired. And like, I’ve told that to my father and like, I love him to death. But it’s one of those things that like, I feel like you can’t learn that. Yeah, that’s why you paint people, you know, you know, you have a small crew, grow your crew. And mind you five years ago, we grew the crew doubled the business in one year, then scale back because realize that, you know, 40% of 40% of total gross revenue per year was payroll, it’s kind of like, well, you got to pay your labor. You know, you can fluctuate that. But you still got to pay your labor because they’re putting bread and you know, bread and butter on the table for you. And for them. Also, you got to compensate your labor. But the mistake that I think most entrepreneurs make is that they tried to duplicate themselves to where they overwork themselves, and they burn out.

Matthew: Yeah, oh, absolutely. I mean that that is right, right on point and you can’t duplicate yourself. And it’s hard luck. It’s hard to unlearn the grinds, if that’s your sort of nature. It’s hard, hard to unlearn it, but the truth is, if you really think about I never really think about all the work I did till two three in the morning. I guarantee nothing after probably seven or nine, maybe it was like, you know, something crazy, actually move the needle. I thought it did. But the truth is nothing when I’m working on a Saturday night, that doesn’t, that never moves the needle. Right? If that’s how you have to work on that, and actually believe this now, and believe me, I remind myself, if I have to work like that there’s something wrong with how I’m structuring things. Right? There’s something wrong, right? So you know, if you have, you know, you’re you’re fortunate enough, we’re doing too many sales calls. Okay, that’s great. And all. And of course, that’s when I’m making my money. But then if it’s too many sales calls, either a what’s sucking up my time, that’s, you know, that is that that’s stressing me out, or B, I need to hire it out. And it just makes more money, you have to investment spend, right? And I think just sometimes it’s hard to see, because you look at the dollars out and say, oh my god, it’s 50,000 a year or it’s 25,000 a year, but it’s not it’s 2000 a month or 3000 a month, and you could always shut off the spend, you’re not committed forever.

Ivan: You know uh… as you were talking– talking about some of those things… uh yeah there’s the quantitative aspect of entrepreneurship and business like you know what’s coming in what’s coming out right because you gotta justify your expenditures but um I think passion and purpose is what a lot of people forget about is like why are you doing what you’re doing because I know plenty of entrepreneurs you know they’re multi-million dollar businesses but they’re unhappy they feel like they have to wind themselves every single day just to make money and I’m like what’s the fun in that really like I mean are you really enjoying what you doing or are you just like you know trying to make sure that your bills get paid and set some money aside but in reality you’re not really happy you know.

Matthew: uh– that was me um so I talk a lot of people a lot about there’s product market fit right that’s a big thing right does the market want your product well you can have that but if it’s not you know I have that in my econ portfolio product market fit we sell a lot of products but business entrepreneur fit right business wrong guy right if I’m like it took me a while to realize I was like I was in love with e-commerce I was like oh! I like selling things like buying and selling I enjoy that aspect but the truth is business of these commerce the real business dealing with google and all the intricacies that you have to deal with and positioning and marketing a b testing of pop-ups that’s not me it’s just not and the reason you know I love what I’m doing now is I just get to talk to people and help them solve problems like help–help people right and I am so much better geared I didn’t realize until I started the business so much better geared towards that–that I love love it yeah it’s not to say it’s easy it’s hard still building a business but I–I love it and you know you really do need to make sure it’s the right business for you like you said.

Ivan: Yeah, absolutely, well Matt your dropped the wealth of knowledge man definitely definitely appreciate all the insight that you shared but we before we sign off on this episode throw out some handles some websites, email, phone numbers, whatever how can people connect with you. 

Matthew: Sure. If everyone goes to extendyourteam.com/freedom you’ll get an assessment quiz on where you are in the outsourcing journey ate the end of it uh you can uh book a meeting with me right um also go to our website extendyourteam hit contact us if you just want to book a meeting directly but then the quiz the assessment is helpful but if you just say hey I know what I want book a meeting with me love to talk to you even if you just wanna talk about your problems any we may not be the solution but if I  could point you in the right direction that’s not us… I’m happy to. 

Ivan: Okay. awesome, awesome –