How to Outsource and Scale Your Business

Matthew: Thanks guys, so how are you doing today? 

Henry: Doing amazing dude alright so uh you know I told you I was gonna ask you this before the show i’m gonna ask you this right away what are you doing freezing your ass off and Tahoe. You could have been in a beautiful place like Sunny San Diego. My friend. 

Matthew: Oh yeah, but you don’t have a mountain, right? I can go snowboarding. Snowboarding yesterday with snowboarding the day before. Can’t do that San Diego.

Henry: You’re you’re absolutely right. We do that. The water. It is cold water right now though, but we do have the water like you got some, you got some amazing stuff to do and here’s the bottom line is you have the time to do it, right? There’s a lot of people out there who run businesses gets swamped in their day-to-day. Me being one of them James being another one. How did you find the time to make make yourself available to go snowboarding or enjoy the snow.

Matthew: I just replaced myself. So Imean here’s the deal. Like you said in the intro, I actually have an e-commerce business majors making millions of dollars a year, but honestly I was sucking up all my time and it sucked and so my wife and I were going to China and I already had been Outsourcing, but Inever went someone high level and she said to me, I don’t want you to work inChina, which really wasn’t a request. It was not a request, but it was a command. It’s so I should say go hire someone in the Philippines to Your business.

 I said, honey, you can’t do that. Like it’s just not that kind of talent pool and she said, go figure out a card as a country of 100 million people. Obviously, there are people there and she was right. I valid spent like two months, finding my first person and I hired someone who ran a hu ndred person company like sheeps, for a hundred person company to help me with my e-commerce business and she just kicked ass and just Got me out of the business within 45 days and now that business three hours a week Iwork on and she helped me launch. Now my virtual assistant business which now we scaled to 50 people during the pandemic so where I think we’ll be like 48 right now and like 50 in the next few days. So so yeah. So you know it’s going fast but it’s fun and that’s how Ido it. I just hire better people, that’s it and you can afford them. So what’s that’s what’s great about it. 

Henry: Look prior to Covid happening. We were all kind of very traditional with our businesses, right? We to get somebody on board, we put in an ad, whether it used to bein the newspaper, now we put in an ad online, right? Then becomes in the interview, they bring your resume you decide whether they’re good fate or not and then you–you place them on on staff. They get a cubicle in your office or whatever the case may be. And boom, you’re off and running you have an employee that was expensive. Then the whole internet thing kind of opened up the doorway. To have these virtual assistants

but when covid happened, it’s kind of really, really opened up the floodgates to realize that you can go on upwork you can go on fiverr. You can find real good talent all around the world, how’s that helped grow your business? 

Matthew: Oh, it’s incredible. I think it’s also timing, right? So like I lost the business with everyone is virtual and I have clients that I have a Midwestern manufacturer that has three people, right? He’s like wait a second, I could get better Talent at you. 30% of the cost they show up.

 They’re actually happy they’re appreciative and they come to work, ready to kick ass and that and I think a lot of people are thinking that way, right? And covid is just freed that people’s minds and open them to realize. There is no difference if you’re Manhattan or Manila right upwork, fiver or amazing resources, right? And there’s so many others, and, like you said, like, what, you know, that the hardest thing is, To realize we’re not special,

right? And there are people like us who are super talented all over the world and you just have to tap into that and on top of what’s been really fun as I can, you know, a lot of people that are listening to this maybe at various stages of their business, if I can run a multimillion-dollar business and start another 50 person, business from the bunk bed room, and my house, anyone could do it, right? Everything is virtual. It doesn’t matter. There’s nothing people holding people back anymore and I think Covid, really

Expanded people’s minds.

Henry:  Well you, you’ve done something a little unique though, here, where you vetted people, your wife is literally gave you the command. Hey, figure this out and solve a problem, right? So you vetted it when someone like these thinking of getting a VA, I literally I’m looking for I was looking to Upwork just before we got on the call here for a project that I’m working on and I’m looking through it and I can’t help. But to look, I’m like, what country is that coming from? I don’t know. I’m so scared of picking somebody. That a doesn’t speak English very well. –be I don’t know what the result is going to be like, and there’s no real accountability for me to be, you know, I have all these things in my head that stop me from hiring somebody and that I didn’t know that’s outside of this country. Help me get past that. What kind of vetting process do you have to help? You know, cool. Calm my nerves in that sense. 

Matthew: Yeah. So, for us, right? So you obviously can’t do it on your own, right? You don’t need someone like me but the time to figuring it out is you’re going to look if it’s going to take, at least you at least, 10 to 15. Months and you’re going to go through 12 people. It’s just the way it is maybe– Yeah, so, you know, you gotta realize if you want to do it on your own that’s gonna be your experience and you just have to accept it. Now, what we do that’s different is that I have a team in thePhilippines. They can vet Filipinos in the way of like and just look for things that you and I As Americans can’t write, they know what to look for. They know, culturally about to look for. They could see who is going to actually be good or Not based on

intangible things we want. Then we have three goes through three interviews before a client. So it’s the recruiter, it’s my chief of staff and then me and then to a client’s, right? So at each step, we’re looking for different things. And we also have a vast amount of experience Outsourcing. So that helps us understand what’s going to be successful. And then we also sit in the middle to make sure that the client is successful because a lot of people are like you. They’ve never done it for us. We’re only doing full time employees because it’s Easier and we find that it is more successful, but you can do less of what you could do. Part time as well on your own or through other agencies. 

Henry: All right. Let’s walk through this. So, we’ve been doing the podcast, James, and I, for almost going on three years. And we’re to the point now where the setup of every episode, The some of the email automation, some of that stuff we really do need to get to the point where we’re handing it off to a VA. I wouldn’t know where to start, we do use va’s for insurance agency, but for the podcast space,

You know, where do I go? If I go to someone like you looking for a VA are you guys industry-specific or you kind of vetting out People based on what the client needs. 

Matthew: Its based on what the client needs, think about it like this. What we do is we –we do a search if we don’t have in the database, a search like, 150,000 dollar higher, we do the exact same thing, right? So we understand your needs, we’re creating a job description where work with you, you know, I have a call right to figure out what exactly do you need in my opinion,

it’s really easy to figure this out. You divide your day into two things, I do strategic tasks, tactical tasks. So thinking of doing, right? And if you’re if you’re actually you know spending all your time doing all those tasks 100% should be outsourced to a VA. Otherwise what you’re telling me is that you’re valuing your time at 16 to 18 an hour, right? If that’s what your time’s worth, that’s okay. But the truth is your time’s worth more than that. And so, you’re just value your time and these are people who can think, you know, you can get maybe 14 but it’s really generally 60 to 80 for someone high quality that really could just take something and run with it and you’re just not going to have to think about it anymore. And that, you know, you’re going to have this. So, in your example, right? You have a podcast, you’re interviewing me everything before, and after that’s it, they do. You don’t join it, you just knock. 

Henry: And that’s exactly, that’s exactly what I’m looking for, right? Somebody and it and now my thought process is always more. There’s a complex little bit of skill. Here, right, there’s there’s

easy part is the emailing and in the context of, but what about? You know, I need a little help with content Creation in, you know, I got my 30 minute video clip here that we’re doing our interview. What if I Need somebody to, you know, maybe break some of it up? Maybe post up to my Social Media stuff, you know, are all these tasks something that we can vet somebody out for or is it like one type of service, one type of person. 

Matthew: Now, you can actually find someone to do it all. So it look. If you’re saying, I need someone who can Could be an engineering manager and someone who could do marketing. Okay? Those are two people, right? That mean in the United States. That’s two people, that’s gonna be two people anywhere, but if you’re saying, I need a like, you know, like a general assistant to help me break up a podcast to then put that in some email automation program to post it to do all those types of related tasks, no problem. One person, the manager calendar, the protect your day, the reach out to guess. They’ll, coordinate, all all that for you. No problem. You can have someone Who acts, let’s just say for your insurance agency.

Let’s use this as an example who is like your Chief of Staff. Actually, make sure you wake up in the morning. With here you go. Here’s a list of everything going on in your this business and by the way,the podcast businesses. Well and here’s all the things you need to know. Here’s all the things you Need you to do right now. Give me an answer and then go about your day and whatever you want. You can get is crazy. So we place someone, Ithink he was 26 an hour, right? He was a, two he ran a 2000 person division and he’s helping run a small business. So this is the range of talent and all you’re doing. And you know, the reason we can find these people by the way is because we offer benefits and do a lot of other things that you know, other agencies don’t. But you know think about the skills and that you can bring to your business and if you’re able to tap that talent pool, right? All you’re doing is buying Arbitrage on pay scale, right? Look, it’s cheaper to live in the Philippines, right? It’s no Different than

it’s less expensive to live in Middle America than it is in California, right? It’s just how it is, right? So pay there is less, right? So if you are so now take that income, the the disparity to amore extreme example in Manila is way cheaper than the United States. So you know, incomes everything’s to scale right. So, incomes are cheaper, you know, thousands cheaper food is cheaper and so you can get incredible, incredible, operation cell. 

Henry: That is –okay. So the cost is amazing already first and foremost because paying here in the US on top of, I mean, when you’re talking about $15 an hour it’s not actually $15 an hour is $15 an hour. You know, Social Security Medicare. Exactly, right. That’s exactly my point, but when you’re hiring a VA, what? That –that dollar an hour is that dollar an hour, right?

Matthew:  Yes. That’s it right? There’s no hidden costs. No hidden fees, it really doesn’t matter.

 Right? And so you know theU.S. you had it. Like it’s actually a 30 percent increase on the cost of the employee. Now in also don’t forget. We’re who are you hiring for 15 to 20 bucks an hour, right? There’s also the skill level that may not be what you need a virtual assistant United States. Like a really good one. Is third and 28 to 35 an hour, right? So that’s equivalent to 60 to 80 thousand dollars a year 75. So, you know, think about that for a second, right? So plus your, you know, plus plus plus, they don’t work for you full time. You know, they’re balancing all sorts of things. It’s really you. Just the value is just incredible. 

Henry: So are there any minimums that we need to look at like we currently run a team of by the way. Hey what’s up Elliot? He’s over there in the UK. Love it, love it. Thank you very much. There’s there’s always some sort of standard like we use a VA for the insurance specifically in that niche and they have like a minimum amount of hours or a minimum amount of employees that we bring on. What type of minimums are we looking for? Or we’re looking at, when we work with someone like your company.

Matthew: Okay. So for us, this is straight-up board out of experience. 40 hours a week, okay? I when I first started the business, I was doing part-time, but here’s what happens. Let’s just say it’s four hours aday here at halftime right now. Think about this. What are they doing? What are you look for full-time work? So they’ll get a Time job and a half time job and what’s going to suffer

the half-time job right time in my own business time and time again, this is the only reason we hired full-time. It’s not to say you can’t go to an agency. That’s going to tell you that no problem, youknow, 10 hours a week or five hours a week or 20 hours a month or eight hours a month or whatever. But be aware that person is piecemealing jobs. So they’re not dedicated to you, which means you don’t control their time and they’re distracted like okay. Well if you have to prioritize, let’s say your

eight hour day job which makes you rethink your body or your four-hour day job. What are you prioritizing? I know what I would do. Hmm. So you can do, you can do it all you know, whatever you want but the truth is in my opinion you should always hire full-time. If you can afford it, even if it’s 30 hours a week, you only have 30 hours a week of work or 25, guess what? You’ll figure out how  to fill that up and you’re going to get 40 hours of value truthfully.

Henry: How are we tracking the our requirement? So let’s say, you know, I have a task list and something that might take me, you know, three hours to do in a day because I’m super efficient with it. I’ve been doing it for some time, might take somebody else, you know, for five hours to do for that same amount of work, how we tracking that. So we can make sure that we do kind of meet that 40 our quota, we’re not applying too much pressure, or Worse, we’re paying for something that we’re not using.

Matthew: Sure. So, two ways. One is we put time-tracking software on all the teams computers.

 So, it’s very normal in the Philippines, right? It’s or Ishould say, in the United States. Wow, wait a second. That’s creepy. Can you imagine actually, having this software screenshots, right? But what it also allows you to do is apply time to things like Asana, which are Trello or Monday, which are, which are task management software. So you can say, start the clock for the Podcast Outreach, right? And that gets time clocked. And so what you can do then is say, wait a second. Oh, by the way, you know, Maria, why are you spending fifty five hours on a task that should take you to? Right, let’s go look into this and so we can help our clients like, work through that, and figure it out. But we’re sitting there, like, we are actually watching. So, you know, every payroll parents just every two and a half weeks or every two weeks we are. We’re watching what people are actually working. Like how much they’re worth Working versus how much they should be working, to make sure it’s relatively the same. 

Henry: So when we’re vetting out the, the va’s that we’re looking for, like let’s say we decide, okay? This is a great opportunity. I’m going to take advantage of it this process as the client. How do we know or pick from a potential pool of candidates?

Matthew: So what happens is, this is, I mean, be 50 people. So it’s bearing out is that within, its really honestly the first person or the Person, you know, you interview thembut you do realize by the time they’ve got to you, it’s have had three interviews. And so, you may not look, maybe it’s not the right person. We don’t force anyone down your throat, right? But if it is right person, youlike great. I’ll just try that out and let it rip. If there’s something you don’t like. Or you want to see someone else. No problem, we’ll just give you another candidate. But honestly, it there was one person out of 50 that has gone past the second round. And that’s only because he was looking for a developer. Element manager who ran customer service as well, which was just a very difficult higher, but we found the person. 

Henry: Yeah. That’s a, you know, in my mind all wondering about that, right? Like I want you to be really good at this thing, but can you also do this other thing, right? Imean, that’s kind of like what our spouses think of us or we can have our baggage. All the time right. Yeah, but can you also be a good mother at the same time? Please. It’s it’s, it’s at least. Help me alleviate some of that stress and being able to pick some of the people that are out there. How much time do you end up spending when you went out to kind of set this whole thing up. So the wife said, alright, crack the whip, go figure this out. How much time did it take you to kind of go out there and and figure it out and did you enjoy your time there? 

Matthew: No, I did not destroy my time. I did you do you like looking through hundreds and hundreds of resumes? 

Henry: No, hell no. 

Matthew: Right, try to find the high level person. It took me two months. Now mind you. I also had three and a half years of experience Outsourcing, right? So it’s really not two months. It’s two months on this one Higher so but the here’s the truth. I got lucky. You know, it is extremely difficult to find someone of that caliber, on the typical platforms that you and I would use or as, As Americans, right? It’s just very, very difficult. So, I just got lucky. I mean, it was 22 months, but I also had skill to That, you know, and sift through everything. And then after that, once I hired some of the Philippines to rent, you actually hire for me things just started going so much better. 

Henry: So I’ve been I just finished binge-watching undercover billionaire. I love it, you know, discoveries, awesome, awesome show, right with with Glenn Stearns and –and he really emphasizes the power of using a team around you really got me thinking about you know if we’re going to take our show or our team or company to another level, then we really got to find those key components for our team and that’s not to say that they all have to be here. What kind of budget are we looking for? When we do decide, okay, I need, you know, x y, and a z. Type of person to be on my team. What kind of budget should I put aside for something like that? 

Matthew: Yeah. So Iwould say, typically speaking for higher-level person you’re talking 16 to 18 an hour times 22 times 8. So you know 3000 3500 month. And so, but for them that that, again, we’re at that, we’re looking at the extreme, extremely high-end, like, people who are going to help you grow your business, right? These are not people who are just doing tasks here in there. You could do it yourself, and these are the people we hire. You could do it for. You’ll see. See people talk about, I’ll get it a VA for five bucks an hour. They’re just not going to help you. It’s gonna have a lot of problems. My advice, when you’re ready to invest, get the right person. A few thousand dollars a month and don’t look at it as like, oh my God, I have a year, you know, I’m hiring them for a year, you’re hiring them on a month-to-month basis after two months, right? If it’s not working, guess what you do? You say it’s not working and that’s the end of it, right? So I would budget, but say no more than ten thousand dollars to get the right person who’s going to help you for a few months and if after those few months, they’re not making a difference in your life or your business cut the ripcord. 

Henry: Mmm, I like that. I like that. Imean, that’s let’s face it, though. It doesn’t matter whether you’re going to use a VA or you’re going to hire in-house here. You know, a person here in the US, it’s still gonna take a capital investment, no matter what right– Exactly. Right. So if you’re– if you’re gonna get into the hiring process then it is on capital investment. The only difference is where you’re going to pay and how much you’re going to pay for the same amount that you’d pay for somebody here in the US. You’re probably getting one or two people that you can get out. Sourced oversees, for three people. 

Matthew: The Leverage is incredible. But you know, here’s the thing, right? Yeah. What is your time Worth, right? So look, if you’re spending all your time on task that, you can Outsource 1516 an hour. Why? Right? If the difference of the difference between so each dollar an hour is $180 a month, right? So the difference between 5 and 15 is eighteen, hundred dollars, if you can’t spend, you know, Additional 18 hundred dollars

on your business to help it grow. There’s something wrong with your business, right? If that’s if you a person cannot help you if you can’t get out of the day today, right? And they help you get out of the day today, right? And then you’re not growing because of that because you’re actually doing sales or doing marketing, whatever. Then there’s a problem, you have to look Inward and there’s a problem with your business, right? Maybe it’s the wrong Market, maybe you’re not the right person. Maybe There is a process broken, right? Maybe it’s, you know, it’s an idea of one person. I have the best product, but you can’t sell it, right? So, you know, just you got tothink of people, they free you up to grow your business. There is no successful entrepreneur, not not one who’s a solo person, even a solopreneur where they saw the bookkeeper, right? They still having someone who’s helping them in some capacity, right? You have to have a team to be successful. 

Henry: You’ve been doing this for quite some time, and you’ve built something that is very, very useful,

but you can get your motivation from just, your wife right. There are other people who have been in influential to, you mentors books podcasts that sort of stuff. What kind of stuff do you listen to? Or what kind of stuff did you learn from to help motivate you to get to where you are today? 

Matthew: So I think one of the greatest books and honestly, it’s just the title. Says it all is, what got you here. Won’t get you there by Marshall Goldsmith. I highly recommend everyone read it and here’s the premise, right? It’s really about more about Corporate America but it’s in general, the skills that got you to today to be successful today or not the skills that going to take you to the next level, right? And it’s a really wise premise because when you think about it, right up until the point, I created this virtual assistant agency, right? It’s great, but I was in E Commerce. Now, I’m in the Staffing business I have evolve. And Ihave to learn another set of skills, right? That Inever acquired such as how to be effective podcast. Guess right? Like, I never did that. I have to work on this. I have to get better at it, so, you know, it’s a I love this book. I highly recommend it, mentors. I– , you know, I’ve had a bunch one of my mentors, actually, a friend of mine who I won’t show this podcast because I don’t want to get his eagle up, he’s big hero and so, you know, he’s a friend of mine and he’s been an entrepreneur for 20 years, right? And he really He gives me, he’s been a roller coaster. He was riding high in the mortgage industry, but when it blew up and the whole industry disappeared and he had to reinvent himself, and he’s done it a couple times, and I think as a successful entrepreneur, you have to do that. And so he’s really taught me a lot about, you know,the roller coaster. It’s not all sunshine and  daisies. It’s hard work, right? And there’s a lot of bad times to get to the good. And as I read recently, you need to pay tuition, right? There’s one Mark Zuckerberg one, right? There’s one Mark. Betty off. Guess what? We’re not we’re not them

writing if we’re just but that’s okay. There’s a plenty of range of success from where we all are to that. And, you know, just have to recognize that and you know, and pay –pay your tuition and learn. 

Henry: So you mentioned, you’ve been on a couple new podcast. You’ve been, you’ve been kind of touring if you can, if you’d say right on two different shows, what’s your experience? Been like as you go from show to show and then for you as a guest. Guest and then what do you think of the production and

the experience on the business grows? Well actually I love your energy. I think it’s really hesitate else above many others so that’s really fun. I love the visual format that you do. So you from for me right? How you play back and forth with it with YouTube, throwing some video from The Joker or Batman or some of these other things. I think it’s really fun for as an entrepreneur. It’s great. It’s easy for someone to Hey,

where’s the website? How to contact me? I like it. I also think your email series is fantastic. How to read, you know, connect with people it’s really like just it hits you and it’s engaging. I mean, I highly recommend people, you know, sign up for your email list personally, and I think it’s very useful.

Henry:  I love it. I love it. I love it. Thank you, thank you. Allright, so, what is next in store? I mean you went from e-commerce, which is dealing with people in one way, right? Imean, this is still serving the needs of people to dealing with. Actual people to hiring them and providing for your family.

Now me personally, when you’re dealing with like, when you start going into the, the people space hiring them, it really puts a weight on your shoulders because it’s not just the person now, it’s the person and their families and their livelihoods, you know. It’s so that’s, that’s a huge way to have on your shoulders. How do you feel about where your company is going and what’s coming up next?

Matthew:  Yeah, I think that’s very well. Said, I take it prettier. One of the problems in my industry is Virtual systems were treated and it always just, I mean it just drives me nuts and I think it’s absolutely terrible. But it’s a real systemic thing. And that’s why I like we give the benefits. We get Health Care, Dental provide for the families we need to make sure they get vacation right? So I’m very passionate about helping my team, Believe It or Not, virtual assistants do not get paid vacation and tell us that’s it. We’re the only company that does it. I mean I do it my own business. I don’t know anyone that does this and so I’m really passionate about Continuing to help my team and my clients. But we’re talking about my team, my team grow, and just better their lives. Where’s this going? I want to. So, my stated public goal is, I want to grow this to 100-person business. My September which will be like, one year for months. This is our five four months, I found it. And then I want to get to a thousand people in the next couple years, right? And it’s going to be a Relentless focus on creating a better work environment for our team. Helping our clients be more successful. That’s it. Just Relentless focus on that and any capital I can allocate to to those two things for me is capital well spent and ultimately look I’m in the business to make money makes me more money. 

Henry: Yeah. Well let’s let’s see if we can help you do that. Iwant to make sure that our our guest, starring our audience, understand how to get a hold of you if they want to get aVA if they want to start finding those Partners to help them free up their time. So it make sure for listening audience. You let them know how they can get a hold of, you sure? 

Matthew: So two ways you can. Go on the LinkedIn. Contact me on LinkedIn, right here. You could go to the website, or if you go to extend yourteam.com /freedom and it will take you to a assessment and Outsourcing assessment. And then at the end of that, you could book a call, right? Even if you have questions, you’re not sure. Frankly, even if you don’t know if it’s right for you or we’re right for you, maybe you can’t afford a full-time person, that’s okay. Book a call with me. I want to help you. I want to help you avoid any of the BS that you’re going to go through. And for me, that’s very rewarding.

So please reach out would love to talk to you. 

Henry: Boom. And you better believe we’re going to be doing that here soon to because Imean, I’m telling you, I’m in the position, the questions that I was asking you. Today that I was asking, I mean, they’re legit questions. Those are the questions that I have, you know what Imean? And I’m sure if I have them, there are other people who are similar situation ready to do the same. So thank you,Matt very much for coming on the show today. Hope you had fun. 

Matthew: Yeah, this is great. I love it. I love the back and forth, right? Ithink it’s you know, hopefully people got value but I really I just like like just an interaction between the has been fantastic.

Henry: We had that hairless connection dude, what can I say? Saint Barber, its life, man. It’s in the genes. What can we say? 

Matthew: That’s it. 

Henry: All right, ladies and gents, that’s all we got for you guys today. It is S-H-I-T. So Happy It’s Thursday. Make sure you guys like follow subscribe, give us a, give us a holler on all our social media at business Bros pot. And if you want to be a guest, make sure you go to business bros– businessbros.biz/guests. Remember, we have an eight week waiting. But we got some premium options now for you guys. So you guys can go there and jump the line or you can hop on the last-minute guest list businessbros.biz/lastminute. If we have any last-minute, openings will shoot, you an email, and get you on the show, that’s it. Ladies and gents will see you guys Mañana talk to you soon. Peace, and we’re out. 

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