Hiring Exec-Level Team Members From The Phillipines

Gavin Preston: Hey Gap in here you’ll have the audio format because you listened to podcasts. I’m a massive fan of learning through audio courses and books. What I particularly like about no audible is that courses are short form like a podcast, an expert led like an audiobook with courses on leadership from the commander of the International Space Station, and on startups from the co founder of Reddit grab yourself 20% off coupon code Gavin in capital letters G A V I N which brings the price down to just over $3 a month. It’s a no brainer. Download the no bubble app or visit no bubble dot F why I use code Gavin to get 20% off.  

Gavin Preston: Hi, Gavin here. Welcome back to the Business Mastermind podcast. I hope this week is treating you well. Today we’re talking to Matthew Yahes. Matthew is the CEO of an E commerce company and the weddings and gifts space. And you can guess what a challenging environment that’s been in the last 12 months. And so he actually set up a brand new business called extend your team. He’s the CEO and founder of extend your team. And they bring C suite level capability, senior exec level capability at 18 to $20 an hour by tapping into the real talent in the Philippines. And they have an interesting model that they extend your team hire the teams out of high level senior execs out of the Philippines and provide them as a service a full time service dedicated to your business. It’s really interesting model and and it’s enabled many businesses to get hold of really highly capable people that are hired over and above the skill that you may necessarily need. But for the fraction of the price that you would expect to pay for that level of resource if you were hiring locally in the UK, the US or Canada or wherever. So straight to my interview with Matthew yeas, CEO and founder of extend. Hey, Gavin here. Welcome back to the Business Mastermind Podcast. Today we’re speaking to Matthew yay. Now Matthew is a serial entrepreneur. He’s the CEO and founder of extend your team is also the CEO of an E commerce business in wedding and gifts. And we’ll find out more about that as we talk. Today we’re going to be talking about Matthew’s entrepreneurial journey, the highs and the lows, the ups and the downs of that, but also about how he’s helping entrepreneurs like you and I get access to talent, real highly capable sort of talent from logical operates through his new startup, which is growing rapidly. It through through the last 12 months called extend your team. So Matthew, Welcome to the Business Mastermind podcast.

Matthew Yahes: Thanks, Gavin, great to be here.

Gavin: Real privilege to have you here. So let’s let’s just jump back in time to your earlier sort of business experiences. You know, I speak to you now you’re in Lake Tahoe, but actually spent a lot of your earlier time living out San Francisco. So you kind of have tacked on your blog for a long time, then you’ve moved into the kind of digital nomad space and creating a life where you could travel and run your business from your laptop, which is the the achievement of a few but the goal I’m sure of many more. So yeah, share some of your background, what you know where you come from, and what you’ve done to date in business. And then we’ll jump into hearing more about, you know, how you took the created opportunity to chaos with your new business. Extend your team?

Matthew: Yeah, so I think my entrepreneurial journey started started, like so many other people. For me, it was 2008 and the downturn, the global economy when it crashed. I was part of a layoff. And it really was the first time I had gotten laid off. And I was obviously very, very upset. And I just never happened to me, I always survived and I actually got laid off not for any other reason that someone didn’t like me. It was a very senior person. He just didn’t think I fit in for whatever reason to the company. And but what that really taught me and this was a piece of advice is that you can love a piece of I got, you can love a company, but it can’t love you back. If it’s not yours, it’s not yours a company is going to do what it’s going to do. And from there, I started a career of contracting where I contracted, which then led me to and… 

Gavin: what was your skill set? What was your background?

Matthew: I was in technology management consultant. Yeah. And so I went from, you know, I literally went from my company, to working for my client directly. And this was really important, because the guy was working for at my client was a very, very, like, top three executive in the restaurant business. And my client at the time was a Chicago 2016 Olympic bid. And so we were going for the Olympics. He said, come work for me. You know, we lost the Olympic bid. Ironically, I went back to my company that led me that laid me off at three times the rate, because I was a contractor now. Yay, for me. And, you know, it’s great. But then he then, you know, at some point he gives me the guy gives me a call my former boss, and he says, Hey, I’m going to start a restaurant business. Why don’t you start it with me? And I need someone to get stuff done. And I was 34 at the time, a guy who’s Senior, and an industry says, Hey, started, you know, business with me. Even if you don’t know the industry. I’m like, What do I know? He said, You’ll figure it out. Okay, so I started a restaurant company. And that’s actually what brought me to San Francisco, not technology, impressed. Through that I ended up I spent four years we grew it to I think it was 14 locations in six states before I left. Before we took in some money, other people took over. And then I spent some time just saying, what the heck do I want to do with my life? Right? I just spent four years in the restaurant business never wanted to be in the restaurant business. If you’re a restaurant entrepreneur, you’re crazy. I don’t know how you guys do it. It’s very difficult. And then at some point, I decided, my wife said to me that I was unemployable by anybody showing my now wife, and she’s like, why don’t you go do something on the internet, you like selling art, like I was selling some stuff on eBay importing from China. And that was really the beginning of my digital entrepreneur journey. And through this, I acquired a three site ecommerce portfolio, fully remote. So this is 2016. Everything was remote. The team at the time was onshore. And I started to learn what the internet was. And it’s I thought I understood the internet. Gavin, you use Google, right? 

Gavin: Yep.

Matthew:  You have any idea how it really works as a business?

Gavin: No, just like, I can flick a light switch. And I don’t really know how electricity works.

Matthew: Right. But I thought I knew how the lighting company worked. So I spent a whole bunch of money took out some loans. And what I realized is I thought I was smarter than I really was, and spent the past couple of years, you know, I would say, paying tuition, about here’s how the internet works. Here’s how business works. And you know, it’s your own dime now. So it’s just a very different situation. No venture capital money.

Gavin: Yep, yep. So what were your biggest lessons on that journey then? So you bought these? This a portfolio of three commerce businesses, this still in the wedding and the wedding gift space? 

Matthew: Yep. 

Gavin: Yep. Business you still have now? Yeah.

Matthew: Yeah. So my learnings were one, I mean, as I said, I wasn’t as smart as I thought I was, I jumped into the deep end of the pool, and how to swim. Yes, I didn’t know nearly as much as I thought about business and the internet. And that was a little eye opening. Because I went to graduate school, I got my MBA, I started a company was, you know, we taken a bunch of cash. But I didn’t realize what I didn’t know about business. Things are very different. In my opinion, when you’re spending your own capital. For sure you do a marketing program, you blow 20 grand on it, it doesn’t work. That’s 20,000 less than your bank account. Yeah. different feeling. The other thing that I learned is I love operations. I love tinkering. I just, I just love that stuff. But that’s not what creates value in a business. And that was a very hard lesson for me to learn. Yeah, right. I was, you know, working 14 hour days, this is going to make a difference. And, you know, my tinkering and my optimizing. That’s what’s gonna cause a business to grow. But the answer is no, at least in my experience, and that was a very hard lesson to learn as well.

Gavin: So what did you find that does create value in the business?

Matthew: I mean, marketing positioning, unique selling propositions, yeah, right. All the stuff that I was not focused on. Today, I was fortunate in that I had a team member who was helping me with this stuff. But the truth is, we both should have been focused on it. Someone else should have been running operations. And while I grew the business over four years, you know, 30 30% from I think it was like 3.2 to five or so maybe 40%. Alright, so why grew the business that much? It probably would have tripled? Have you both been rowing in the same direction on marketing and growth and strategy? And, you know, someone else was running the day to day? Yeah, it was a critical learning for me that I think it held me back. I mean, I definitely don’t think I would, I would have been much more successful. So your co producer,

Gavin: just walked into the room? Yeah. Sorry about that. 

Matthew: This is working from home Gavin. 

Gavin: This is the reality of working from home anybody listening? My my little four year old just walked into the room. And he handed me a lolly. I don’t know what you guys call it, you know, a candy stick or whatever you guys call it. An ollie pop aces. I dropped it. And it’s dirty. So he’s just brought that to me. Right in the middle of a recording.

Matthew: That’s important to know.

Gavin: Absolutely. So you’d have grown it more if you’d been both focused on on the marketing, the USP basically driving, market positioning, but driving sales.

Matthew: Yeah, I mean, you know, look when you’re making so I think the fallacy that I had, and this is just, I had to learn my lesson is that I was like, oh, it’s making millions of dollars a year, you know, there is someone who’s more oriented towards that I can do what I like. Right? And sure, that’s okay. But the truth is, yes, I could squeeze more money out of the business, make it more efficient. But that’s not the goal. And yes, it’ll increase the bottom line. Because, right, it’s not just about growth, it’s about profit growth. But at the end of the day, what create, you also need to really focus on the marketing to grow the top line. And then ideally, if you’re doing alright, the bottom line to follow. And I just, I just didn’t appreciate that as much as I do now, where now for my next business, I still have the ecommerce business, but for that, for my for my outsourcing business, I am solely focused on marketing. I have delegated operations to operators. And, you know, I say, here’s what I want done. Go do it. Here’s your timeline, go execute. And I sit and have conversations like this. I do sales calls right now, for the time being. I talk to people about marketing initiatives I think of I just have me time for reading. So I can think about strategy. Pack, I go snowboarding, like this afternoon, I’m gonna go snowboarding, right? Love it. Right, clear my head. And those activities are what it’s my belief, of course, you have to have basic operations. And that’s not what I’m saying. Those activities in my belief, are gonna make me more successful and make me have a bigger business with more ease than if I’m sitting here grinding it out. Because by nature, I grind it out my whole life. I’m a grinder. I mean, I know myself.

Gavin: Hey Gap in here, you’ll love the audio format because you listen to podcast. I’m a massive fan of learning through audio courses and books. What I particularly like about knowable is that courses are short form like a podcast, an expert led like an audio book with courses on leadership from the commander of the International Space Station, and on startups from the co founder of Reddit grab yourself 20% off coupon code Gavin in capital letters G A V I N which brings the price down to just over $3 A month it’s a no brainer, download the notable app or visit no wobble dot F why I use code Gavin to get 20% off so your your ecommerce businesses in the in the wedding industry so that’s that’s taken a hit over the last year but there’s not a lot of people been putting it on weddings for obvious reasons.

Matthew: Yeah, so yes, e commerce is a great place to be gabbing. Except if you’re in weddings. When I bought it my bought the business so it’s interesting like you talk about business learnings. So you know, I bought the business post 2008 I looked at the numbers in 2008 it did not go down whatsoever

Gavin: saying hey, this is recession proof

Matthew: recession proof right you know what it’s not pandemic

Gavin: is though. Everybody wants to get married until the– till the car get buried.

Matthew: Well till it’s illegal

Gavin: till it’s legal to get married. Yeah, it’s illegal to have

Matthew: My businesses and wedding favors. I’ve one of the largest sites on the Internet for the United States. And imagine you know, usually my I’m selling you know, 175 I’ve units per person because they’re per sale because they’re giving it out to somebody, right. 100 guests? Well, if you do a zoom wedding, there’s zero, right? And so it’s, it was at the worst point, I’ll never forget this. It was 95%, down year over a year, this was like, late March. Right? And there’s not there’s nothing you can do. Right? Because we didn’t know what’s going on, besides like, pulling my hair out, which I don’t have the how to figure out how to restructure the business. Right. I moved everything offshore. Right. I had long standing team members. But at that point, you know, the interesting thing was, all my employees understood, be that I had to do something because there’s no, there’s nobody pay that. Right? I couldn’t just pay out of my own pocket for a year, right? It’s just not realistic. I downsized, and just prepared position, the business for whatever the future was. And now it’s coming back. I mean, we’re about 50%. So I estimate, by the end of the summer, we back to 100, or something close to that. But ironically, it was a great thing for the business–

Gavin: there’s gonna be pensions. It won’t be pent up demand.

Matthew: Well, so there’s pent up demand. But for weddings, there’s also a lead time, there’s venues and things. There’s only so much throughput. Right? So it’s possible that September, October, you see, like a lot more weddings in October, November.

Gavin: That’s the season. Yeah– 

Matthew: Yeah, it’s possible. So yeah, restructured, and now we’re, you know, up above and down to Obama. Yeah. 50%. It’ll get back. But lots of business lessons, I’m on how to survive, right. Black Swan never could have predicted this.

Gavin: So you know, you cut back on your cost base, you had to let some people go, you moved off? offshore? Did you go back to the point about marketing, given the fact that people were not allowed to get married or be illegal to put together a gathering like that? What we do on the marketing stuff we use still aim to keep brand front in mind.

Matthew: So I did a couple things. One, I continue to invest in content. So I had hired a content writer. So to feed Google, right, so Google thrives on content contents, not where we make our money, but it helps give what it’s called topical authority, meaning Google thinks that you’re an authority, because you have a lot of well written content that drives traffic. So we did that. Right. I think, you know, advertising you cut back, but it sort of, so what happens with advertising is you have a certain cost of sale that you need to meet. And so our target is whatever it is. And as long as that’s being hit, then the sales are what they are, you don’t go over that to get a sale, because then you lose money. So naturally, advertising gets paired back. But that’s a function of demand. Not a function of me spending wanting to spend less. Yeah, okay, good. I tried email marketing, right repositioning sending stuff, but the truth is, I mean, the name of our business is wedding favors unlimited. And it’s a wedding favors site, you’re not going there for birthday gifts, right? Just like just like, Mark, like how you think about the business, the name will dictate how people think about in some respects, and this is a very narrowing name. So it is what it is. So I tried all these things. And at certain point, I said, You know what, it’s not losing money, because I have a portfolio. So the gifting part of the business gift baskets were doing well. And so you know what, it’s surviving? I’m not losing money. It is what it is. What’s next? Yep. Right. That’s kind of that is, was really what I positioned it for. I just thought, all right, what’s next? Next could have been getting a job by the way. 

Gavin: Yeah.

Matthew: I don’t want to do that.

Gavin: So where did you look for inspiration for for what has now become, extend your team? So what gave you the idea of what next in terms of your next business?

Matthew:  So what happened was I pre pre COVID So this is October? Probably right around the time COVID was in China, to be honest with you. Yeah. My wife and I had scheduled a family trip with her family, we’re taking our parents to China. And, and probably August, she says to me, and in quotes, I hope you’re not going to work on this vacation. And I said, I don’t know if that’s possible. Honey, I’m working 14 hour days. You know, she says, Why don’t you find someone in the Philippines to run your entire business. Now this was business doing 4000 orders a month, 5 million a year and I Connie, there’s just I know a lot of people were way more successful than me in the internet space, and they only go for Junior talent, she says, looks at me with these poor honey eyes. And she says it’s a country of 100 million people. I think there’s one person go fine.

Matthew: I’m like, Are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? And so I start I know I mean, now I know I got lucky to be honest with you. 

Gavin: But– that’s a really interesting challenge, because most of the labor and Mark access to that market of labor is for junior talent, isn’t it?

Matthew: Yes, absolutely. So an entire industry and that this is look, including the sites that you go find people for. You got to find people out in the Philippines, and entire, the entire industry is built on cost. I will fight you can get someone for inexpensive. And what I said is Alright, listen, it’s still inexpensive to me. If I double or triple what the cost is. It’s still inexpensive to me. Well, why don’t I try? And let me put in an ad out and let’s see what happens. So I reviewed four to 500 resumes because you get a lot some of these sites, you get a lot of resumes. Four or 500 resumes, interviewed probably 100 people, which sounds like it’s not true. But generally speaking, you can have within the first five minutes, you’re gonna know, you do enough of these, you’re gonna know right away, if you’re gonna click or not. And I’m just cut the interview short. So it really wasn’t that bad. narrowed it down to let’s say, 10 people, right? And then now it’s down to one. And she crushed it. She was a she ran, she ran 100 person. She was Chief of Staff for 100 person company. I had six people at the time. So she came to my six person business.

Gavin: Oh, she left her previous business.

Matthew: Yep. And I went and the interesting thing is you hear this all the time? Why would someone do that? She left because she hated her boss. Right? She didn’t like her boss and her boss just was not good to her. So you leave for your boss. Right? So, gamble. I’m going to work from home. And, you know, she I went from working 14 hours a day. So she came on board. I onboard her for one week. I said, Here you go. Here’s the business. I’m going to China I’ll talk to you when our day if you need me. Right now granted, I’d systems. So it’s a little a little different, right? I’m not like hey, you know, it’s not much she could damage she could have done

Gavin: a big shift you though your main business, your business that you’ve grown up over years and years that you sweat, blood and years and for 14 hour days. And then you just go, Hey, you’re after what we call boarding.

Matthew: I was tired. I was done. I realized that ecommerce business wasn’t for me, like you know what, it’ll be fine. And it was I went from 14 hours to three hours within six weeks. Now, if I’m honest, that’s one hour a week. 

Gavin: Amazing. 

Matthew: So she’s–

Gavin: really as simple as that. Was it just who got lucky? Because she was exceptionally good at what she was doing? Or if you’re teasing childhood problems on the way?

Matthew: No, I just hired I just hired real talent. So in the US who I’m sure you know, it’s the same where you are real towns expensive. $150,000 a year employee? I can’t. So I just went to another country. And I just got great talent. They’re at their prices. Yeah. Right. So she’s an executive there. Yeah. And it turns out no surprise, all the best talent is in in the UK in the US. It’s all over the world. Right. And it sounds so obvious. But so this was this is why I started the company. I had all this free time. My friends were shocked that I was able to do this right with find someone. And I said to them say Hey, can I just find you someone like this? And I have a lot of entrepreneurial entrepreneur friends and they said yes, so my first 10 clients, I knew 100% of them. And it was you know everything time and time again. Same story. I was getting crushed now not getting crushed. Now I’m not –

Gavin:  And all from the Philippines. So you actually not only just found this one person was from all over the world, it wasn’t necessarily just from Philippines. So we’re gonna just one person the exact level at senior level, though, that you were finding was a whole cadre of people at that level that were really skilled and talented.

Matthew: I’m sure if 100 million people Yeah, of course. Right. So you think about it, right? So and then all of a sudden, you know, jealous was finding and not me, by the way. So she was actually finding all these people. So she became true in running my ops business now. You know, the business at the time. She was running my ecommerce business right, which was still turning over probably At that point, like, once we figured all this out, like one and a half a year, you know, while it’s on hold, and she’s doing that started another company with me. Right? We’ll be at 70 people soon. And we started this last May–

Gavin: When you say 70 People you employing the business model, because when you say, Are you are you employing them? And then you are invoicing them out to you’re charging them out?

Matthew: Correct. So I thought what I do is there’s a big issue in the industry for contractors, especially from the Philippines, they get ghosted, right, so people just don’t pay them. They don’t have health care, they don’t have vacation. They don’t, you know, all these things that you would take for granted and a company. So all I do is I structured a business where contractors get treated like employees, right. And so it works. And now I’m able to get an incredible people like we offer health care, all these people that wouldn’t leave without health care now are going to come work for us to make sure they can vacation. And so that’s how I structure it. And it’s so far it’s working. It turns out entrepreneurs need, we find all sorts of people, but really our bread and butter is chief of staff level people that can help you with your business and offload real tasks. Not the typical virtual assistant stuff. Yeah. Because that’s what works for me. I mean, I’m just doing what for other people what I did for myself.

Gavin: So and what’s the model that if an individual needs them full time, then they can have them? Or they can, they could just take them for a minimum of five hours, 10 hours a week?

Matthew: Yeah, so full time only, here’s the secret in the Philippines, right? I don’t care. Especially if you hire a junior level person, that’s typical VA, but even more so at the higher levels, it has to be 40 hours, because if it’s not 40 hours, they’re looking for 40 hours worth of work, which means your stuff is going to come second, or they’re going to drop you as a client. Right. So, you know, it’s one of those things where it’s, you just have to do 40 hours. And if you can’t afford 40 hours, I understand that, I just, I just find that you’re not going to be as successful without sourcing to the Philippines unless it’s 40 hours. Ironically, this was advice given to me by someone who is now my client. And he told me about this. And he, he’s my client, because he can’t find the people he needs.

Gavin: So your model then is that you find the talent, but you might often go depending on the client needs, you’ll go looking for the particular skill set and experience. 

Matthew: Correct. 

Gavin: You employ them, rather than your client employing them. So why have you chosen that model? Obviously, you’re gonna you’re gonna make, you know, a weekly recurring income rather than just a placement income.

Matthew: Yeah, so So what that meant from a business perspective, right? So recurring revenue is fantastic. I came from ecommerce where it’s not recurring revenue, it’s always hunting, I give a current rate is phenomenal. But also, why why this, why I do this is we have internal team to help make clients more successful. And so when there’s an issue, like a coaching opportunity, or the client needs coaching, or you need some restructuring of how they do their tasks, standard operating procedures needs to be created, the client doesn’t know how to do that. Were there every step of the way. Because that’s where a lot of this stuff goes wrong. It’s not just finding the person, it’s the working relationship. And the truth is, a lot of people just don’t know how to make it work. That’s why they fail. And so we’re sitting here working, but both ends with the team member and the client to make sure it’s successful. So that’s just what I found worked for me. 

Gavin: Can you give me an example of some of the kinds of roles that you’ve helped provide somebody to fill the from the Philippines and it’s worked really, really well?

Matthew: Sure. So I would say the number one role is chief of like a chief of staff. And we’re really talking like 18 to 20 us an hour. So this is someone who imagine your day gap and you only did strategic thought things that make you money, everything else was given to someone else. Right. So I started with my chief of staff will soon be a 70 person business while she’s running, what’s a 10 person business? So I mean, think about that kind of talent, right? You just, it’s crazy for that price. Now. We also find things I can’t be found customer service managers. We have Amazon managers, we have graphic designers, right? What because I have recruiters in the Philippines, were able just were able to get great people and people are going through multiple stages of interviews. So it’s really the range of what you need for your business. I have bookkeepers that I have found. It’s it’s really all over the board. It just depends what you need.

Gavin: But so much so so you if the element is you want to finance person to a finance team, you’ve got that skill if you want someone to be run your marketing team You’ve got that skill. Yep. And they, if you were to build out that team, whether it be finance or whether it be marketing, they could then also help or you would then help get more junior members in that skill set.

Matthew: Correct, so what we do now – I do not– as a business rule, I do not get junior members to start, I just say no. The reason I say that is not for monetary reason, it’s for success. I want clients to be successful and most virtual agencies tell you is “go get – the person who is expensive– that would be great, they will help you. But they don’t tell you, you’re gonna have to manage them along. Right,  That’s what sucked up, I was working 14 hours a day hoarsely, was managing junior level team members. Instead get the highest paid person first. They are willing to do more junior level work then backfill the team. This way you are completely insulated  from any of the day to day stuff that happens with junior staff and truly are the executive. It’s just the opposite. I – it’s counterintuitive to what most people think –  Because in the United States they fill more junior first because you actually afford. You can afford someone who’s $18 per hour in the United States that’s the same working fast food. 

Gavin: Yeah– 

Mathew: Right? But that person is gonna change your life and that’s the mind chefs that I had to go through– I mean three and a half years for me to go through it.  right , just banging my head against the wall. It took my wife out saying I’m not gonna do something, I’m like “ okaaay” . You know for it to happen 

Gavin: And so over the time then there’s a client of yours that they want to be able to bring the person on? Do they want to cut out the middleman? Is there not a risk from a business model point of view that they will say, Well, I want I’d like I’ll pay them a full time role. But I Why would I continue to pay your fee in the middle?

Matthew: Yeah sure. That’s fair so, they have an option to buy out? All my clients always have an option to buy, okay. We are not a recruiting agency if you want that–it is not my model but as an entrepreneur… I would want that. So that’s what I did.

Gavin: is selling the services of those people rather than being a recruitment agency. Yeah.

Matthew: Exactly so if you wanna actually do that you can buy them out – it’s a tip, it’s a high typical recruiting fee, right? Doesn’t matter how long you been my client that’s the recruiting fee. And you know the trick, but then I also realize now you have to give them vacation support system and all these other things we don’t do online education opportunities, a community, all these things that YOU don’t necessarily have for them because now they’re the only person in the Philippines… What is that worth to you?  Sure, you can save a few dollars.

Gavin: But for them, for the individual that’s working in your team. They feel more isolated, less supported. 

Matthew: Correct, so but that’s what so it’s, I’m solving a two sided problem, So yes, you know, so in remember my whole margin is not is it’s like all profit. Right? I am investing back into something. Right. So now you have to figure out all these things. And so you know, and over time, it’s gonna be even more challenging because my goal right now we pay for our team members, healthcare, medical, dental life, my goal in the next 12 months is to pay for three people’s worth of medical dental life. Right. And once I achieved that, now, you have to do that. But so it’s just not like, it’s not worth it, like, unlimited online education. Like how are you really going to figure this out? So what are you saving?

Gavin: Yeah, yeah, get that. So presumably, the the time differences are not much of an issue that do they do the team out in the Philippines adjust their sort of body clock and then they work on us time?

Matthew: Yeah so exactly, so there’s a culture in the Philippines, the interesting thing is because of the big multinationals there’s a 24 hour culture and the business process outsourcing industry, which is where we  have a lot of people. So working overnight shifts is common, it is not a very weird thing. Now, for certain roles, Let’s use my accountant as an example, my bookkeeper, she works – Philippines day time. Do I need her to work night? No, you don’t make sense. My chief of staff she works mostly us hours because she’s running an E commerce business and my outsourcing business. So it really other people clients have them work full daytime hours, some of them have them work, no hours, it just or like one hour overlap. It just depends what you need. So it’s all open.

Gavin: Yep. And then obviously the the subject to I have a Philippine a VA in the Philippines. They’re subjected to typhoons, etc. Have you found that from a business interruption point of view that you’ve had challenges there?

Matthew: So So I’ll just like, honestly, it happens. Yeah. Right. So there’s a couple things. So you have to take, it’s like anything, you have to take the good with the bad, right? So, for my ecommerce business, if things you know, someone loses power, they lose power, they’re out, I accept that. Right? I feel the benefit, you know, it may be a day, right? But I feel the benefits outweigh those type of issues, the loyalty, the quality of work, their attitude, their appreciation for what you know, for working with you. To me that far outweighs other things. The other thing is someone would say, Well, why don’t you just get an office and you can mitigate a lot of that. That’s what a lot of companies do.

Gavin: An office in the Philippines?

Matthew: In the Philippines, go get an office and everyone commits to the office. Yeah, that but what I think people fail to realize is sure you can do that. Now, their commute went from their bedroom. So we’re attracting people who were commuting two hours each way, four hours a day. Now, we eliminated that. So you get higher quality people. So now you’re just like, if we did that, we’re just like everybody else. So do you want the better person? Or do you want to be like, Okay, well, if there’s a typhoon, I’m going to be pissed. Right? It’s what do you what do you want? I would go for the higher quality person who here in there is going to have some stuff happen? Right. And I just accept that, for my own business. Right? People around the United States just accept it. It’s not the big it’s not a big deal.

Gavin: Yeah. So just Oh, yeah. Obviously, with all the snow in certain parts, you know, Texas, did massive power outages. Back to your point about customer avatar. So who is your ideal client for extend your team, you know, who would be received most benefit from one of your team members? 

Matthew: Yeah. So if you were… it’s really psychographic versus a demographic, right? It’s somebody who, is either on their own or has a team. The team can be 20 – 30 people, who’s finding themselves, like just stuck, stuck in tactical tasks, that’s preventing them from doing the work they should be doing which is growing the business. And if you are that person, you are a client and it spans across industries. 

Gavin: The starting point has to be a full time role, then 40 hours a week,

Matthew: That’s it, I don’t do it. Otherwise, it just in my experience, it doesn’t work. And then all that happens. It’s failed every time for me personally. And all that happens is you get frustrated.

Gavin: But I would imagine those individuals that may be sort of listening to no doubt be some listening to this podcast that will say, Well, I don’t think I got 40 hours a week for somebody, work a week for somebody. But if you’ve got a really good quality, exact level person, they’re going to end up taking more and more off you than you ever realized that you just did.

Matthew: Yeah, well, because if you have a high quality person, you say, I only have 25 hours a week, I would make a fairly sizable wager. If you say you only have 20 hours a week, within two to three months, you’re gonna have 40. Because all these things that you just like you said, you think you can’t give. So and by the way, I am constantly surprised at stuff that happens. For example, my customer service lead, I for my gift basket business, I was doing corporate sales, because I had let go my team members that were doing this. She’s in the Philippines, right. And she took over corporate sales this year, I was completely nervous. She closed 190 $1,000 sale 540 $1,000 sales and multiple, you know, 15 and $20,000. Sales. All right? So I was just blown away. I’m like, Wow, I’m in this business. And I was I fell for the trap. So if you get better people, you can give them more and more and more. Now, obviously, your business has to make money, right? I’m not, you know, but if you’re at the 20 hours a week, work well level, I just I guarantee it’s going to be 40 within two to three months. Right? And the truth is, if it’s not, it’s not working for you, you can always let them go.

Gavin: Do you find these people have got skill sets across a number of domains because you’re just talking about a particular skill set, they’re in sales, put your your next break, you could be talking about Systemising we could be talking about some ecommerce optimization stuff that we could be talking about marketing, there are distinct skill sets and experiences and training. So are you finding people that actually in one person, you’ve got that breadth of capability or because you just tap into the expertise of different people within your 70 strong team?

Matthew: Yeah, so it’s, it’s so there are no unicorns. I always like to say, if you want to find out unicorn they cost probably about 350 to $400,000 a year, right? Just Just recognize that. So you know, there’s operations skill sets, my customer service manager, I didn’t think she could actually use inbound sales not outbound. But I didn’t think she would be able to go close a $90,000 sale, right? I just didn’t think I was wrong. So you’re getting athletes. And that’s the I think, the most important thing, people who can think, or athletes, and that changes what you can do. Now, what I personally would not recommend going to the Philippines for really strong marketing, and you’re not going to the Philippines for strategy, you’re going to the Philippines for operational talent that can help you help you run your business. That is the guys which you go under. And in that you’re gonna find people that can do all sorts of things.

Gavin: And I think you’ve, you’ve got a fantastic model. I’m sure there’s probably a week or a month that doesn’t go by, by that your life your wife says to you, I made this happen. It was my idea.

Matthew: This is this Oh, yeah. She The reason this works is because of her. She said, You know, I told you I could use a very successful senior executive. She’s like, I was giving you guidance. And I was coaching you. And you know, this is why this happened. Thanks honey. I love you. 

Gavin: You’re right. Indeed, she was right. I have a country of 100 million people. She’s you’re mining a rich vein of talent that probably a lot of people listening would have never actually, it’s so easy for us to position to pigeonhole people or categories or countries into into certain pigeonholes. You think? Philippines Yes, for lower level more junior outsource VA talent, tech. But what this podcast a certain this conversation has opened me up to is that, wow, I would never have thought that you could get high level chief of staff level exactly level talent, you know, from the same place. And of course, when you say it’s a country of 100 million people? Of course, you’re going to–

Matthew: There’s got to – be I mean, think about for me, I need 1000 or 2000 people, 5000 people, that’s for my business. That’s it. Right? In order to make it massively large. And you think about it from that perspective, you’re like, Oh, okay. Right, like, yes, obviously, you can do this right. Now, when I go to the Philippines for technology talent. No, I probably do to Eastern Europe, because there’s a better cohort of people, more specifically that, but–

Gavin: you were next to the model, then are you going to then look at certain of the sector. So you might do look for Eastern Europe, for Estonia, wherever for tech talent?

Matthew: If so, I think ultimately what so if I think I do like to do a couple things. One is I eventually like to create a platform, right for this, because that’s the business owner that scales right upside, I also would like to go deep into different countries and become like more of a global talent agency say oh, like, like you said, eventually, when I do tech, there are a lot of people doing it. And I think they could do better than I can. So if I can do it in a more meaningful way. I don’t know if I would do it. But maybe, for example, it’s fantastic. There’s a massive need for bilingual call central people. And then I go to South America, and I find that Mexico, the rate arbitrage is very good. And I could create the kind of environment I want and duplicate what I did in the Philippines, or Argentina, or Venezuela with all the problems they’re having or Colombia, maybe there’s different types of talent locations that I don’t know about. So I would love to become a global talent agency. And I think that’s where it’ll go. In the future. Honestly, if you don’t start your business with global talent, you’re going to lose. That’s just what I believe.

Gavin: What a statement to end on. I love that. I love that. I love that. Thank you, Matthew, For if you don’t start your business with global talent, you’re on what was that? It was the final bit you’re on a hike and –

Matthew: You’re gonna lose– you know…

Gavin:  So how do people find out more about you about extending your team? How do they find most importantly, how they can tap into this amazing resource at 18 to $20 an hour?

Matthew: Yeah, so you know, you can connect with me on LinkedIn. Right? I’m pretty active on LinkedIn, I post all the time, send me a DM or friend request. You can also go to send your team out comm and book a call with me directly. For the time being I do sales and the process of looking for salesperson, but for the time being, you will get me and even if you’re not ready, you just want to talk and you want to learn. I’m happy to get on a call. I like helping people. Even if you’re not my ideal client. I’m happy to point you in the right direction. Because there’s so many ways to go wrong and I just don’t want you to make the same mistakes I did.

Gavin: Love that. So Matthew with two T’s Matthew yeh y ahe s Matthew yay He’s extend your team.com. And the email address was that sales at extend your team,

Matthew: You can just send it to Matt at extend your team.com. And I’ll get it.

Gavin: My extend your team, Matt, you’re a superstar. You really opened up something in my thinking today and certainly with some of the acquisitions that we’re looking at currently, I really do think that could we, I could be jumping on a call with you from a customer point of view. And I’m sure there’s plenty of people that are listening to this podcast right now. Just thinking, I need to get a call with Matt. So thank you so much for your time today. Thank you for reaching out to come on to the Business Mastermind podcast.

Matthew: Thanks, Gavin. Have a great day.

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